I'm discussing this on another board, but they are either stumped or too dumb to understand.
There are many folks on this board that are clearly smarter than me so I thought I'd put it out there to see what you all think.
I'm not particularly attached to the outcome, in the sense it will disprove my atheism or anything, I'm more just wondering if I am making some sort of flaw in my reasoning.
The premises are, for the sake of argument:
a) I as a human have free will.
b) there is a god and he is both omniscient and omnipotent.
Here goes:
If it 'can be known' whether I will choose to eat an apple or an orange for lunch tomorrow, then how can I possibly have free will to change my mind and choose freely tomorrow at lunch.
1. Today at 1:00 pm I ask God what I will choose to eat for lunch tomorrow at noon.
2. God knows ahead of my actually making the choice what my specific choice will be because he is all knowing.
3. God can tell me what my choice will be, in my timeframe, because he is all powerful.
4. Therefore at 1:05 pm today God tells me he sees that I will choose to eat an apple at noon tomorrow.
5. its 1:06 pm - can I still exercise free will and change my mind and eat an orange tomorrow?
It's not so much god knowing that limits my free will, its that it CAN be known that suggests a deterministic universe - therefore no real free will.
Someone challenged me and said god telling me influences what choice I will make, as if that matters, but just to remove that, lets say
1. Today at 1:00 pm I ask God what I will choose to eat for lunch tomorrow.
2. God knows ahead of my actually making the choice what my choice will be because he is all knowing.
3. God can tell me what my choice will be, because he is all powerful.
4. Therefore at 1:05 today God writes down on a piece of paper and seals in an envelope that I will choose to eat an apple at noon tomorrow. I never open the envelope so I don't know what God has seen.
5. its 1:06 pm - can I still exercise free will and change my mind and eat an orange tomorrow?
If I have some change of heart and choose an orange tomorrow, that violates god's omniscience.
If I cannot have a change of heart, that violates my free will to choose an orange tomorrow at noon.
So I think there is an incompatibility between omniscience and free will.
It doesn't matter if it is god or some super technological device that can see into the future, I think it is the same.
Am I making any errors?
There are many folks on this board that are clearly smarter than me so I thought I'd put it out there to see what you all think.
I'm not particularly attached to the outcome, in the sense it will disprove my atheism or anything, I'm more just wondering if I am making some sort of flaw in my reasoning.
The premises are, for the sake of argument:
a) I as a human have free will.
b) there is a god and he is both omniscient and omnipotent.
Here goes:
If it 'can be known' whether I will choose to eat an apple or an orange for lunch tomorrow, then how can I possibly have free will to change my mind and choose freely tomorrow at lunch.
1. Today at 1:00 pm I ask God what I will choose to eat for lunch tomorrow at noon.
2. God knows ahead of my actually making the choice what my specific choice will be because he is all knowing.
3. God can tell me what my choice will be, in my timeframe, because he is all powerful.
4. Therefore at 1:05 pm today God tells me he sees that I will choose to eat an apple at noon tomorrow.
5. its 1:06 pm - can I still exercise free will and change my mind and eat an orange tomorrow?
It's not so much god knowing that limits my free will, its that it CAN be known that suggests a deterministic universe - therefore no real free will.
Someone challenged me and said god telling me influences what choice I will make, as if that matters, but just to remove that, lets say
1. Today at 1:00 pm I ask God what I will choose to eat for lunch tomorrow.
2. God knows ahead of my actually making the choice what my choice will be because he is all knowing.
3. God can tell me what my choice will be, because he is all powerful.
4. Therefore at 1:05 today God writes down on a piece of paper and seals in an envelope that I will choose to eat an apple at noon tomorrow. I never open the envelope so I don't know what God has seen.
5. its 1:06 pm - can I still exercise free will and change my mind and eat an orange tomorrow?
If I have some change of heart and choose an orange tomorrow, that violates god's omniscience.
If I cannot have a change of heart, that violates my free will to choose an orange tomorrow at noon.
So I think there is an incompatibility between omniscience and free will.
It doesn't matter if it is god or some super technological device that can see into the future, I think it is the same.
Am I making any errors?
via International Skeptics Forum http://ift.tt/1RUJcnj
Aucun commentaire:
Enregistrer un commentaire