The universe as a closed looped infinite system

There is the idea that this universe is all that exists.



The problem of how it came to be is explained in the idea that it always has been and that what we call the big bang is simply evidence of a beginning of its present loop which will eventually evolve into whatever it evolves into before the moment when it begins the cycle again.



This is an interesting idea as it potentially does away with any creator god ideas usually reserved for arguing how the universe was created by something that is not itself a creation of the universe it created.



The problem with that type of idea is that it still does not explain how that god came to be but is open to the idea that another god created the universe which the god which created our universe is from, in which case the god which created us no longer would fit into the 'god' category (having been created itself) and thus 'turtles all the way down' applies, which essentially says that the idea gives us god-like beings but since they are creations of some other god-like beings, they are not really 'god'.



The solution to that has to logically end in the idea that at some point something created this ripple effect which through a series of gods and universes ended up creating the one we are within, and that something must have never been created but must have always existed.



That something thus could fit the exact criteria for the idea of what god is, not just god-like but god.



So then the argument can be that it is unnecessary to have ideas go outside the physical universe because it is just as easy to have the idea that this - our universe - is the only universe and we can work it all out without having to resort to ideas which involved any other universes or any god ideas whatsoever.



Which is why this thread has been created... to discuss this idea further, to see how it stands up to scrutiny.



So I said in this post (from this thread ) in relation to this idea, these things:

So if we put aside the idea of any other universes and gods, we are left with something (our physical universe) being the thing which has always existed.



The problem being that there is evidence it had a beginning, which then leads to the idea that it somehow loops through stages of beginnings, middles and ends which leads one to wonder then on the idea that it is like a never-ending program which repeats itself - but it also has to have never had a beginning in the first place, so what made it decide to go through this looping process and how many times could it have done so? It could have already spent and 'eternity' of beginnings and endings and beginnings again...and has it been repeating the same thing exactly?



Or if not exactly, then with variation, perhaps in some attempt to break the program by degrees and even perfect it so that each cycle from then on is perfect.



Perfect for what?



For the consciousnesses which inevitably evolve from the looping process. (assuming consciousnesses evolve from this process)



Otherwise well, 'ground hog day' springs to mind, albeit on an astronomical scale...but if I remember the movie, didn't the character eventually realize he was in a looped situation and change things?

I made some observations based on the idea...

Some answers pertinent to the idea came from Aridas in reply to those observations

Originally Posted by NavigatorThe problem being that there is evidence it had a beginning, which then leads to the idea that it somehow loops through stages of beginnings, middles and ends which leads one to wonder then on the idea that it is like a never-ending program which repeats itself - but it also has to have never had a beginning in the first place, so what made it decide to go through this looping process and how many times could it have done so? It could have already spent and 'eternity' of beginnings and endings and beginnings again...and has it been repeating the same thing exactly?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aridas (Post 9703959) There's evidence for the Big Bang Theory, yes, and an origin for our universe. That really doesn't address the larger issue of existence as a whole at all. The rest of that can be considered baseless speculation at the level that you're engaging in it. There are cyclic cycle cosmologies that have been proposed, yes, but things like repeating the same thing exactly or even particularly close to exactly has never been a supported feature of them, as far as I know. They conserve physical laws, at best, as far as I know.

Originally Posted by Navigator

Or if not exactly, then with variation, perhaps in some attempt to break the program by degrees and even perfect it so that each cycle from then on is perfect.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aridas (Post 9703959) Perfect for what? And this is just you straying further and further into baseless speculation, whether you're repeating the baseless speculation of others or not.

Originally Posted by Navigator

For the consciousnesses which inevitably evolve from the looping process. (assuming consciousnesses evolve from this process)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aridas (Post 9703959) Why? There is neither necessity even remotely in evidence nor any solid evidence in the first place that consciousnesses that arise either could affect anything on that kind of level or that it would be changed for them.

Originally Posted by Navigator

Otherwise well, 'ground hog day' springs to mind, albeit on an astronomical scale...but if I remember the movie, didn't the character eventually realize he was in a looped situation and change things?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aridas (Post 9703959) Rather quickly, and in that movie and various other renditions, that was because they were *allowed* to keep their memories in full or in part and when they were *released* from it, had fulfilled an entirely arbitrary set of goals. In short, some kind of "god" was moderating in some fashion. We really don't have any reason to accept that that's the case, though.

So I thought I would create a thread in the hope that this idea of the universe as a closed ever looping system can be discussed in more detail, and will now get about making a reply to Aridas's arguments.

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