This topic is begun as an outgrowth of the If Sunlight is a Quantity of Sun thread. As usual, topics get diffused by other discussions as is the wont or nature (not sure which) of minds to wander tangentially. This in itself is a topic for an entirely different discussion. The tangent in this case was the hypothesis that the Sun is potentially an intelligent being with life and purpose.
This suggestion was taken in a number of different directions. As to the purpose of the Sun I was asked where I saw that and I answered somewhat obliquely. Here is why I did that. It is because I am wrestling with the view that the role of humanity is simply food for higher beings on the food chain and is being cultivated as such. It's not a pleasant thought but it is certainly one I can entertain and can see at least circumstantial evidence for.
Somehow my answer was taken by more than one poster as an affirmation that if I believed that the Sun was fostering and nurturing life on earth that it must care for it and specifically me. I do see how that conclusion could be drawn by improper inference but it's not the one I would draw. The farmer cares about his crop until he harvests it. After that, the crop is used for it's ultimate purpose, food. The same is true for the turkey, life seems pretty easy until thanksgiving rolls around. That is the moment that the turkey discovers that life wasn't what he might have thought it was. For the sheep, it seems even more bleak. The sheep is herded and moved around by the herdsman and his dogs. The sheep is shorn for it's wool from time to time and it's young are often taken for their succulent meat. Not a very nice life if one thinks about it but very close to what humans experience as "citizens of a nation".
Keep in mind the Sun would be interested in all forms of life on earth, not only humanity. We know that there has been a progression of life on earth since well before humanity existed. Hence, this is not an anthropocentric discussion of life on earth. I want that to be clear from the outset, this has nothing to do with benevolent creation, the love of god or any other such notions.
Now back to the Sun as having life. Aside from the many scientific citations one can find that refer to the life of a star, what would be considered as evidences of the Sun having life? I found a list of the features of living organisms on a biology site.
Now with respect to the Sun here are my evidences corresponding to this list.
So this is my support for the proposal that the Sun may have life. Not proof, just supporting evidence. Now with respect to purpose. Survival is the first instinct of all life. At the very basest level, this is a purpose for all life, intelligent or otherwise. So then, any activity the Sun engages in would at the least be assumed without knowledge of any other purpose, to be for it's survival.
It is known that much of life on the surface of the earth is sustained by sunlight and without it, that life on earth would not be possible. If the Sun were not alive and had no particular purpose then life on earth may be viewed as simply an effect of sunlight. However, if the Sun has life and it's base purpose is survival, then sunlight in some way is part of the survival instinct. I so, how does one view the fact that sunlight nurtures life on earth?
Firstly that apparently, life on earth is no threat to the Sun as long as it is being nurtured. One possibility is that life on earth may be sustenance for the Sun if it is being nurtured. This is consistent with a survival instinct. It is also consistent with intelligence well beyond that of humanity. Of course if the Sun has taken care of it's survival instinct well beyond anything related to life on earth, then maybe life on earth could be just a hobby for the Sun.
What I have presented here is a set of arguments and facts that support the view of the Sun having life, purpose and intelligence. This is not intended to be irrefutable, it's for discussion. I hope it also demonstrates that a reasonably cogent analysis of the information available could lead to this viewpoint. I am not suggesting it is the correct viewpoint, I don't presume to know what that one is.
Having dispensed with the Sun, I would like to expand the discussion to the many forms of organization within physical structures that are referred to as self-organizing. What is the self to which the name refers? I don't know but Double Layers are examples of this type of organization and they are present under a number of different circumstances. They occur in the body, most notably the cell membrane. In other physiologica cases double layers are used to wall off foreign substances. So DLs may indicate the presence of some form of life. They are certainly present in the human physiology with known purpose. For the most part, double layers exhibit boundaries with different regimes on either side of the DL. In that sense, do boundaries correspond to characteristic #6? I think so. They also correspond to characteristic #1.
So there it is, discuss away or don't. I went to this effort since it seemed to me that other posters on the original thread were interested in this topic. Keep in mind that I am simply killing time on the internet with this discussion and that I have no axe to grind or attachment to the notions presented or for that matter the topic. In fact, I may not participate at all......
This suggestion was taken in a number of different directions. As to the purpose of the Sun I was asked where I saw that and I answered somewhat obliquely. Here is why I did that. It is because I am wrestling with the view that the role of humanity is simply food for higher beings on the food chain and is being cultivated as such. It's not a pleasant thought but it is certainly one I can entertain and can see at least circumstantial evidence for.
Somehow my answer was taken by more than one poster as an affirmation that if I believed that the Sun was fostering and nurturing life on earth that it must care for it and specifically me. I do see how that conclusion could be drawn by improper inference but it's not the one I would draw. The farmer cares about his crop until he harvests it. After that, the crop is used for it's ultimate purpose, food. The same is true for the turkey, life seems pretty easy until thanksgiving rolls around. That is the moment that the turkey discovers that life wasn't what he might have thought it was. For the sheep, it seems even more bleak. The sheep is herded and moved around by the herdsman and his dogs. The sheep is shorn for it's wool from time to time and it's young are often taken for their succulent meat. Not a very nice life if one thinks about it but very close to what humans experience as "citizens of a nation".
Keep in mind the Sun would be interested in all forms of life on earth, not only humanity. We know that there has been a progression of life on earth since well before humanity existed. Hence, this is not an anthropocentric discussion of life on earth. I want that to be clear from the outset, this has nothing to do with benevolent creation, the love of god or any other such notions.
Now back to the Sun as having life. Aside from the many scientific citations one can find that refer to the life of a star, what would be considered as evidences of the Sun having life? I found a list of the features of living organisms on a biology site.
- Organization & Complexity
- Composed of Cells
- Homeostasis - maintaining internal constancy, staying within preset boundaries necessary for organism to function
- Growth and development
- Reproduction
- Response to stimuli - An organism does something in response to the environment to grow, reproduce, or maintain homeostasis
- Energy transformers/converters - Obtained from the external environment for maintenance, growth, reproduction, and homeostasis.
- Capacity to evolve - The "types" of a certain organism change over time in response to a changing environment.
Now with respect to the Sun here are my evidences corresponding to this list.
- Structural differentiation with functional diversity, core, photosphere, corona.
- Granules on the photosphere
- Sunspots, pole flipping, filaments, CMEs
- See astronomy and "life of a star"
- The rest of the Solar System (the Sun was first to form)
- Response to Comets
- Core, Sunspots, Corona
- Many types of stars in the galaxy
So this is my support for the proposal that the Sun may have life. Not proof, just supporting evidence. Now with respect to purpose. Survival is the first instinct of all life. At the very basest level, this is a purpose for all life, intelligent or otherwise. So then, any activity the Sun engages in would at the least be assumed without knowledge of any other purpose, to be for it's survival.
It is known that much of life on the surface of the earth is sustained by sunlight and without it, that life on earth would not be possible. If the Sun were not alive and had no particular purpose then life on earth may be viewed as simply an effect of sunlight. However, if the Sun has life and it's base purpose is survival, then sunlight in some way is part of the survival instinct. I so, how does one view the fact that sunlight nurtures life on earth?
Firstly that apparently, life on earth is no threat to the Sun as long as it is being nurtured. One possibility is that life on earth may be sustenance for the Sun if it is being nurtured. This is consistent with a survival instinct. It is also consistent with intelligence well beyond that of humanity. Of course if the Sun has taken care of it's survival instinct well beyond anything related to life on earth, then maybe life on earth could be just a hobby for the Sun.
What I have presented here is a set of arguments and facts that support the view of the Sun having life, purpose and intelligence. This is not intended to be irrefutable, it's for discussion. I hope it also demonstrates that a reasonably cogent analysis of the information available could lead to this viewpoint. I am not suggesting it is the correct viewpoint, I don't presume to know what that one is.
Having dispensed with the Sun, I would like to expand the discussion to the many forms of organization within physical structures that are referred to as self-organizing. What is the self to which the name refers? I don't know but Double Layers are examples of this type of organization and they are present under a number of different circumstances. They occur in the body, most notably the cell membrane. In other physiologica cases double layers are used to wall off foreign substances. So DLs may indicate the presence of some form of life. They are certainly present in the human physiology with known purpose. For the most part, double layers exhibit boundaries with different regimes on either side of the DL. In that sense, do boundaries correspond to characteristic #6? I think so. They also correspond to characteristic #1.
So there it is, discuss away or don't. I went to this effort since it seemed to me that other posters on the original thread were interested in this topic. Keep in mind that I am simply killing time on the internet with this discussion and that I have no axe to grind or attachment to the notions presented or for that matter the topic. In fact, I may not participate at all......
via JREF Forum http://forums.randi.org/showthread.php?t=268170&goto=newpost
Aucun commentaire:
Enregistrer un commentaire