The Post 442 Thread

There is something... strange... about Post 442.

It seems that folks of a certain mindset are unable to see post 442.

Quote:

Originally Posted by SOdhner (Post 11862638) Hey thewholesoul! This is my first post on this topic, but I promise I've read the whole thing (phew!). I would like to try to help, and to make that easier I'm going to avoid the words 'relative', 'stationary', and 'motion' other than just now in this sentence - I think some mixed definitions have caused undue distress. You used an analogy earlier about one of those airport walkways and fans and stuff, and I'm going to base this off of that general idea. To avoid any confusion that's irrelevant to the analogy, let's set up some rules: A. The moving walkway is going North at exactly 10mph. B. Don't worry about the motion of the planet it's on, that would be mixing the analogy with the real thing. You can assume it's not a spinning globe if that helps. C. The air is blowing North at exactly 10mph also. It doesn't matter if this is from fans or natural weather patterns or whatever, it just matters that it's going at 10mph for the duration of the example. D. It doesn't matter if we're in an open field or an airport terminal or whatever. Imagine whichever one you don't have a complaint about. Since we only need to worry about the local conditions it really shouldn't make a difference. So we have a walkway, and air current. Let's have two people - me, and you. You've mentioned making actual measurements before, and I really like that. So the two of us have those speed gun things that measure how fast something is moving. The guns are stupid, of course - they're inanimate objects and can't make any value judgments or get hung up on semantics. All they can do is measure how fast something is moving towards or away from the gun itself. We also have two flags (one each). I plant my flag next to where I'm standing, you affix yours to the walkway where you're standing (yes, you're going to be on the moving walkway for this experiment). I'll number these so it's easy for you to say which ones you do or don't agree with. And... start the walkway! 1. You point your speed gun at your own flag. Since the gun measures how fast something is moving towards or away from it, it just says 0. After all, your gun and your flag are both on the 10mph walkway so they aren't moving away from each other. 2. Now I point my gun at your flag. It says 10. That's because my gun isn't on the walkway, so your flag is moving away from it at 10mph. 3. We both just measured the same flag, and got different results. And that's okay. It doesn't matter which one you think is "right", this is just how the speed guns work. 4. A balloon is released. Just a regular party balloon. Since it blows along with the 10mph wind, the balloon is going 10mph - the same speed as the walkway. 5. We both point our speed guns at the balloon. Just like your flag, your speed gun says 0 (the balloon isn't moving away from or towards the speed gun) and mine says 10 (the balloon is moving towards/away from my speed gun). 6. You start walking North at what would normally be 5mph. While doing so, you point your speed gun at your flag. The speed gun reads 5. 7. Now I point my speed gun at you. My speed gun reads 15, because in addition to the 10mph you were moving due to the treadmill you're also moving 5mph due to walking. 8. You point your speed gun at the balloon (while still walking North). It says 5 again. Because the balloon is going 10mph from the wind, and you're going 10mph from the walkway and 5mph from walking. (Total of 15) So the gun only sees the 5mph difference. 9. You switch direction. You're walking South now, at that same 5mph pace. You point your gun at your flag, and just like before it says 5. 10. Now I point my speed gun at you. My speed gun reads 5, because in addition to the 10mph you were moving North due to the treadmill you're also moving 5mph South due to walking. The Southern motion partially cancels out the Northern motion. 10. You point your gun at the balloon (while still walking South). It says 5 again. Because the balloon is going 10mph from the wind, and you're going 10mph from the walkway and 5mph the opposite direction from walking. (Total of 5) So the gun only sees the 5mph difference. 11. You decide you want to walk to my flag (this means getting off the walkway). First you try to do this right as you are passing it. But since you're going North at 10mph, you land off to the North of my flag. 12. You get back on the walkway and try again. This time you wait until it's past, and then leap at it. Since you're already to the North AND you're heading North, this doesn't work very well. You have to walk even further to get to my flag after landing. 13. One last try. You jump towards my flag while you're a little South of it. Because you're going North at 10mph, this works and you land right by my flag. You don't have to walk at all, so you save energy. 14. Wanting to experiment with this more, you get back on the walkway and try jumping while staying on the walkway. You leap straight up in the air. Both you and the walkway continue to go 10mph, so you land right where you started. 15. Unbeknownst to you, there's a curve in the walkway ahead! (Bad planning, sorry!) You don't really notice though, because since you're standing there on the walkway when it curves you just curve with it. Any physical perception is so minor that it doesn't even really register (it wasn't a huge curve, just a little one). 16. Another curve comes up! This time, it arrives just as you leap into the air to try the experiment in #14 again. You and the walkway are both going 10mph, BUT the walkway jigs just a teeny bit so when you land you are ever so slightly off from where you started. Just a little bit. Okay, that's plenty for now. Can you give me a rundown of which points you did and didn't agree with?

Can anyone explain this Post 442 aberration?

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