Based on some threads and my experience in real life, a number of people appear to believe that someone else who is struggling with a true clinical mental or emotional illness can be significantly helped, "snapped out of it," by being presented with a rationale description of the actual situation. "No, of course people aren't whispering bad things about you behind your back!" "No, UFOs aren't communicating with you through cryptic chalk graffiti on the walls of buildings around where you live!" "Sure you are depressed- but you have no reason to be, just snap out of it!"
In my experience, this does not typically work and can even make things worse. Many people struggling with mental or emotional illness know it at some level, but still truly believe the odd, unreal thoughts even if they can recognize that these thoughts are, well, "odd" and irrational. Part of one's brain can truly believe something while other parts do not. I remember a mild bout of depression I had decades ago- every small disappointment solidified my sense of doom and hopelessness, even while my rationale brain realized that there was no reason to be so depressed. I have seen people struggle with anorexia believing themselves way too fat, even while recognizing in another part of their brain that they were not rationale and were actually starving themselves to death. It is not that many of these folks don't know the reality- their brains just don't let them accept it. Some people deep into a clinical illness may have very little of this rationale portion left conversing in their brains, but they are even less likely to respond to an outsider telling them that what they think is not real.
My point: it is not that the ill person lacks only enough access or affirmation as to to the real facts and a few more pushes will push them over into "sanity." In my view mental/emotional illness exists as a different parallel category- it is not opposed by the facts, and thus can not be counterbalanced if only enough facts are presented. These illnesses instead exist separate from the facts. I just give one modest example: OCD. Some people with OCD need to check multiple times that the burners on their stove are off before they leave the house. After the first time they clearly now know that the burners are off, but part of their brain still "makes them" check again because that part of their brain makes them feel very uneasy if they do not, even given that the logical part of their brains know that they just checked. Checking again helps for a few seconds, but then the unease returns. They know the burners are off; telling them that the burners are off will not help. A different, non-rational part of their brain makes them uneasy despite the facts and they need to check again to reassure that irrational part of their brain. And check again. And again.
This irrational part of the brain, as I see it, is a biochemical mis-tuning that often needs a biochemical fix. It can be fixed in some cases by an externally supplied chemical. Or in some cases it can be fixed by a "behavioral" approach that changes the chemistry internally- e.g. controlled exposure and desensitization. There are other approaches as well. But I feel these approaches need to address what causes the wrong interpretations and odd feelings, not the supply of facts per se. If one did not have the facts, one would be ignorant. If one could correctly interpret the facts, one would not be mentally or emotionally ill. Mental illness is having the facts but being unable to rationally interpret them.
I realize that there are grey areas. I don't think that everyone who believes that the Earth is visited by extraterrestrials is mentally ill, just as I do not believe that everyone who votes for Trump is mentally ill- one can have the facts and process them in a "rational" manner (in a broad sense) but come up with the wrong conclusion. These particular people are just wrong IMHO, not clinically mentally ill (this is not to say that no one in in these two categories, including Trump himself, is mentally ill). The other choice is to suggest that everyone who disagrees with me is mentally ill (I may suspect it but I would not say it aloud).
I also realize that in treating people for these types of illnesses, one needs to re-enforce their grasp of reality and reassure them of the actual facts. But as I see it, this is best done by experts who know how to inter-digitate both the treatment of the disease itself and its manifestations.
By the way- a huge number of people struggle at some point or another with emotional and mental issues that have them just barely hanging on, or who have fought their way back away from being overwhelmed by these issues. It is just part of life. And people currently struggling with these types of problems can be perfectly rational and contribute enormously in ways outside their struggle. In fact, I suspect a large number of people in certain fields (e.g. comedy, writing, science) have achieved their successes despite (or perhaps because of) having these types of struggles.
Sorry about the typo in the thread heading
In my experience, this does not typically work and can even make things worse. Many people struggling with mental or emotional illness know it at some level, but still truly believe the odd, unreal thoughts even if they can recognize that these thoughts are, well, "odd" and irrational. Part of one's brain can truly believe something while other parts do not. I remember a mild bout of depression I had decades ago- every small disappointment solidified my sense of doom and hopelessness, even while my rationale brain realized that there was no reason to be so depressed. I have seen people struggle with anorexia believing themselves way too fat, even while recognizing in another part of their brain that they were not rationale and were actually starving themselves to death. It is not that many of these folks don't know the reality- their brains just don't let them accept it. Some people deep into a clinical illness may have very little of this rationale portion left conversing in their brains, but they are even less likely to respond to an outsider telling them that what they think is not real.
My point: it is not that the ill person lacks only enough access or affirmation as to to the real facts and a few more pushes will push them over into "sanity." In my view mental/emotional illness exists as a different parallel category- it is not opposed by the facts, and thus can not be counterbalanced if only enough facts are presented. These illnesses instead exist separate from the facts. I just give one modest example: OCD. Some people with OCD need to check multiple times that the burners on their stove are off before they leave the house. After the first time they clearly now know that the burners are off, but part of their brain still "makes them" check again because that part of their brain makes them feel very uneasy if they do not, even given that the logical part of their brains know that they just checked. Checking again helps for a few seconds, but then the unease returns. They know the burners are off; telling them that the burners are off will not help. A different, non-rational part of their brain makes them uneasy despite the facts and they need to check again to reassure that irrational part of their brain. And check again. And again.
This irrational part of the brain, as I see it, is a biochemical mis-tuning that often needs a biochemical fix. It can be fixed in some cases by an externally supplied chemical. Or in some cases it can be fixed by a "behavioral" approach that changes the chemistry internally- e.g. controlled exposure and desensitization. There are other approaches as well. But I feel these approaches need to address what causes the wrong interpretations and odd feelings, not the supply of facts per se. If one did not have the facts, one would be ignorant. If one could correctly interpret the facts, one would not be mentally or emotionally ill. Mental illness is having the facts but being unable to rationally interpret them.
I realize that there are grey areas. I don't think that everyone who believes that the Earth is visited by extraterrestrials is mentally ill, just as I do not believe that everyone who votes for Trump is mentally ill- one can have the facts and process them in a "rational" manner (in a broad sense) but come up with the wrong conclusion. These particular people are just wrong IMHO, not clinically mentally ill (this is not to say that no one in in these two categories, including Trump himself, is mentally ill). The other choice is to suggest that everyone who disagrees with me is mentally ill (I may suspect it but I would not say it aloud).
I also realize that in treating people for these types of illnesses, one needs to re-enforce their grasp of reality and reassure them of the actual facts. But as I see it, this is best done by experts who know how to inter-digitate both the treatment of the disease itself and its manifestations.
By the way- a huge number of people struggle at some point or another with emotional and mental issues that have them just barely hanging on, or who have fought their way back away from being overwhelmed by these issues. It is just part of life. And people currently struggling with these types of problems can be perfectly rational and contribute enormously in ways outside their struggle. In fact, I suspect a large number of people in certain fields (e.g. comedy, writing, science) have achieved their successes despite (or perhaps because of) having these types of struggles.
Sorry about the typo in the thread heading
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