I will just say that I was reminded today of a phenomenon I have seen many times:
Famous fundamentalist religious leader, addressing someone in the "out" group" (often a less-fundamentalist member of the same religion):
"We must follow the teachings of God in our own lives! You are not a true believer! Your behavior is abhorrent to God and to society and must not be allowed. We as a God-fearing civilization must punish those who commit them. You who committed these sins have condemned yourself to God's wraith in this life (and possibly your neighbors as well if He decides to do the hurricane or tornado thing), and to Hell and eternal suffering in the next. Your only hope is to never, ever do it again, to pray to God in the way I tell you and seek forgiveness and salvation!"
Target of fundamentalist:
"But I just caught you (or your close friend) behaving in private in just the way for which you have condemned me! And this is the fifth time you've been caught doing this in the last few years, so don't tell me that now you've reformed!"
Fundamentalist:
"Oh, but we are all sinners! (cries a bit)... We are all imperfect! The flesh is weak! But I know in my heart that God has forgiven me/him/her!"
"But uou are advocating the teaching of evolution in schools! This goes against the laws of God! You and your teachings are abhorrent!"
"Sure my friend was caught molesting children 7 different times. But this time he is really sorry, he is certain that he has seen the light (yet again), he has asked God for forgiveness (yet again), and he has received forgiveness (and, yet again, has miraculously received it). Praise the Lord!"
Well, I've never done in my own life what many of these leaders are caught doing. Never. So we may all be "sinners" but many of us have very mild sins (overdue library book?). compared to stealing money, assaulting others, committing adultery, sexual harassment, etc, etc. Many or most of the out group who are condemned in this way are, by secular analysis, far more ethical than the fundamentalist leader condemning them.
This leaves me with a few questions:
1. If there is a God why isn't the fundamentalist immediately blasted by lightening into a greasy spot on the floor? Remember- these leaders often advocate different things- they can't all be right.
2. Does the fundamentalist really believe in God and is nonetheless so presumptuous as to be certain God forgave him/her, but not the outsider? Remember they are often in the same overall religion. Is the fundamentalist so unaware of the contradiction, and/of so certain of their own interpretation of the will of God that they don't see any possible hypocrisy??
3. Or is the fundamentalist leader a cynical exploiter of their followers, and does not believe in god at all?
I realize this involves aspects of the concept of God's forgiveness, salvation through deeds versus thoughts, the Chick Tract concept of a murderer being forgiven through pray at the last moment, whereas their victim (of a wrong religion) goes to Hell, etc. So perhaps what I am really curious about is how members here see the validity of the three possibilities I listed, and if there are more.
Famous fundamentalist religious leader, addressing someone in the "out" group" (often a less-fundamentalist member of the same religion):
"We must follow the teachings of God in our own lives! You are not a true believer! Your behavior is abhorrent to God and to society and must not be allowed. We as a God-fearing civilization must punish those who commit them. You who committed these sins have condemned yourself to God's wraith in this life (and possibly your neighbors as well if He decides to do the hurricane or tornado thing), and to Hell and eternal suffering in the next. Your only hope is to never, ever do it again, to pray to God in the way I tell you and seek forgiveness and salvation!"
Target of fundamentalist:
"But I just caught you (or your close friend) behaving in private in just the way for which you have condemned me! And this is the fifth time you've been caught doing this in the last few years, so don't tell me that now you've reformed!"
Fundamentalist:
"Oh, but we are all sinners! (cries a bit)... We are all imperfect! The flesh is weak! But I know in my heart that God has forgiven me/him/her!"
"But uou are advocating the teaching of evolution in schools! This goes against the laws of God! You and your teachings are abhorrent!"
"Sure my friend was caught molesting children 7 different times. But this time he is really sorry, he is certain that he has seen the light (yet again), he has asked God for forgiveness (yet again), and he has received forgiveness (and, yet again, has miraculously received it). Praise the Lord!"
Well, I've never done in my own life what many of these leaders are caught doing. Never. So we may all be "sinners" but many of us have very mild sins (overdue library book?). compared to stealing money, assaulting others, committing adultery, sexual harassment, etc, etc. Many or most of the out group who are condemned in this way are, by secular analysis, far more ethical than the fundamentalist leader condemning them.
This leaves me with a few questions:
1. If there is a God why isn't the fundamentalist immediately blasted by lightening into a greasy spot on the floor? Remember- these leaders often advocate different things- they can't all be right.
2. Does the fundamentalist really believe in God and is nonetheless so presumptuous as to be certain God forgave him/her, but not the outsider? Remember they are often in the same overall religion. Is the fundamentalist so unaware of the contradiction, and/of so certain of their own interpretation of the will of God that they don't see any possible hypocrisy??
3. Or is the fundamentalist leader a cynical exploiter of their followers, and does not believe in god at all?
I realize this involves aspects of the concept of God's forgiveness, salvation through deeds versus thoughts, the Chick Tract concept of a murderer being forgiven through pray at the last moment, whereas their victim (of a wrong religion) goes to Hell, etc. So perhaps what I am really curious about is how members here see the validity of the three possibilities I listed, and if there are more.
via International Skeptics Forum http://ift.tt/2e1riS4
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