My Conversations with an Extremist

I've had some informative email discussions with a political extremist/conspiracist. Some of our discussions have touched on fact, but we have also discussed the differences between the conspiracist methodology and the more rational or nuanced perspective. I thought it might be helpful post some of it here.

Quote:

*G L E N N R A N T S * Permission granted to print, broadcast and/or shorten these politically-incorrect essays.(To subscribe – for yourself – or someone else – or to unsubscribe – send the e-address.) Renewing the American Gestapo Letter to the editor: A few years before my time, Hitler's government decided it needed protection from, um, its enemies. (The way it was doing, more and more enemies kept cropping up.) America and England moved heaven and earth to produce airplanes,bombs,guns and cartridges to blast that evil regime and its Geheimstaatssicherheitdeinstpolitzi (Gestapo). Now our own government made the same decision: It must protect itself from its enemies (the American people). It passed the terribly miss-named “Patriot Act” – similar in many respects to the Gestapo, taking Americans for America's enemies. Fortunately, these evil agencies of ours were set to expire the first of June, 2015. The same power-hungry politicians who saddled us with these in the first place are determined to renew them. They really like being able to tap your phone or e-mail without a warrant. They like being able to, ah, “detain” you at their whim. Right now, as we speak, there is a terrible struggle in Congress between the real Americans who are determined to hold the government to the Constitution – and the false-Americans who want to make us into a large-scale version of a tin-pot banana-republic in all its terrible tyranny. P L A N A: Lots and lots of us e-mail our Beloved Congressional Leaders and explain that we really ( R E A L L Y ! ) don't like for the government to be given an end-run route around the Constitution to spy on us and harrass us as they please. P L A N B: We let it go by default and become just like the nation our fathers struggled and bled to destroy. Then we say, “Oh. We didn't know. We just didn't know.” P L A N C: Other. (Specify): ____________________________________________ If you are going to e-mail “your man in Washington,” right now is a good time to do it.

Godwin's Law. You loose.

Quote:

Dear Monte, You explained Godwin's Law once before, but I forgot. However, it appears there was a victory at midnight as Senator Rand Paul "ran out the clock" in his fillibuster -- and the hated law expired. Of course, those who want a surveillance-state will pass it again, or write a worse one. See, there is such a thing as bad government, and there are such people as want it for whatever purpose. Contrarily, there is such a thing as good government and such people as want it. Uncle Glenn

I agree that there are better governments and worse governments. I just don't think the extremist style where we each try to compare our opponent
to Hitler, or otherwise demonize our opponent is of much help in determining which is which.

Quote:

Monte, Your point is well taken. To whom shall we compare a government that insists on gathering as many of our phone calls as it pleases, and of knowing who is exercising the right to keep and bear arms, and which wants us to believe that its own whim consititutes a calid search warrant? Uncle Glenn

Why is such a comparison necessary. Can't we all just take a deep breath,
examine the facts and discuss if certain policies are a good or a bad thing?

Let me simplify it down a bit here: Suppose we have Alice and Bob each
propose 2 policies. One of Alice's proposals is a good idea and one is a
bad idea. One of Bob's proposals is a good idea and one is a bad idea.
Now, let's apply your style of analysis, which is always binary, someone is
the moral hero and someone is the villain-in-black-robes/conspirator/just-like-Hitler. Using this style,
either Alice or Bob is evil, and part of a underlying evil goal/plot/conspiracy to destroy freedom/enslave mankind/cancel Christmas.
Therefore we must either reject both of Bob's or both of Alice's proposals. We cannot compromise with absolute evil after all.

Now suppose we apply a more reasoned, calm style of analysis involving nuance, compromise and exactness. We might be able to find that Bob has 1
good idea and Alice has 1 good idea and combine them both, while excluding the bad ideas. This shows the problem with the conspiracist/extremist way
of looking at things. When you go looking for villains, you give up on finding solutions.

I enjoy our email conversations. I participate in a forum that analyzes
such matters. May I have your permission to post this discussion on that
forum?

Quote:

Monte, That sounds like a most educational forum. Certainly you may send this material to that forum. Be so kind as to ask the forum to forward the responses to me. - - - - - - - - All right, then, SOME of Hitler's stuff was good and enabled Germany to rise up out of the mire. (If this were not so, Germany could never have participated in the next war.) It is my opinion that if Hitler were to have died at the acme of his success in reviving the German economy, he would be regarded as one of Germany's finest statesmen. He ruined it all by deciding to conquer the world and to kill off all the non-Aryan races. - - - - - - - - SOME American politicians have decided to copy Hitler's approach to political dissent by passing this warrant-less search and seizure thing and by calling it "The Patriot Act". No doubt there are at least some good intentions. We must not, as "Liberals," regard any opposition to our plans as the operation of The Grinch. - - - - - - So, to simplify, the evil spawn of hell wanted to copy the worst features of Hitler's Nazi regime. See, I limit my Rants to a single page, and it is really tough to qualify every statement with "but they meant well". Uncle Glenn

via International Skeptics Forum http://ift.tt/1M5eh4u