I believe that the Turin Shroud's history goes back into the past beyond Da Vinci and beyond the Templars and Crusaders. What I think happened most likely was that the Crusaders took it from Constantinople. The story of an image of Jesus on cloth being held by Christians goes back at least to 5th c. Edessa. The Byzantines recorded having such an image they got from Edessa.
What I would like to see is what sources if any talked about this shroud before c. 300 AD when Christianity became a religion patronized by Rome. I would want to see whether this shroud was just a pious fraud by the Byzantine empire or are their traces of it going back before then.
Map of the Roman province of Edessa (Wiki free use)
1. Wikipedia says about "Doctrine of Addai":
2. Wikipedia says about the Image of Edessa:
A couple notes:
3. The Biblical Archaelology website says about early concern for Jesus' shroud:
OK, it's curious that the shroud was given to the servant, but it doesn't mean there was an image on it.
Gospel of Peter says:
"And having taken the Lord, he washed and tied him with a linen cloth and brought him into his own sepulcher, called the Garden of Joseph." I don't see anything particularly curious or notable about that regarding the cloth.
4. John 20 says:
Some have theorized that what they saw in the linen clothes is something that made them believe. However, that seems speculative.
5. Eusebius writes in his late 3rd c. History about Jesus' contacts with King Abgar and the letter, so Biblical Archaeology is saying that the kind *could" have had the shroud at that point, even though the shroud is never mentioned in that letter:
It seems very speculative to draw the connection between Jesus' relations with Abgar V in the 1st c., or the apostles' relations with him, and getting a shroud to him of Jesus.
The apostles did go to Syria. Here is a map of Abgar's empire in Edessa:
http://ift.tt/2kAcblj
6. A USA Today article says that new Carbon Dating in 2013 gives a date of 300-400 AD. That would agree with the time when the first record of an Edessan shroud was reported:
http://ift.tt/2llyiQO
Since the researchers are setting a date of 300-400 AD, it means they are not skewing their results to deliberately turn it into a 1st c. object.
7. Edessa was a major Christian center in AD 190 or earlier:
http://ift.tt/2kzXjna
The Christians then could have brought the Shroud to Edessa by 190, or alternately it could have been a pious fraud done in the context of the religion's official sanction by the king. Abgar IX was an Armenian ruler of Edessa, who ruled in AD 177 to 212 and made Christianity the official religion there 100+ years before Rome made Christianity legal. The Shroud could reasonably have been brought to Edessa or manufactured there at that time or in the period leading up to its first mention of being in Edessa in c. 400 AD.
8. This skeptical article says that the shroud doesn't match the legends of Jesus wiping the cloth with his face (the Veronica story):
http://ift.tt/2kzQiTe
The article points out that one of the arguments in favor of the shroud is that supposedly all images of Jesus were beardless before the shroud was discovered in the 6th c. However, the article points out that actually there are depictions of a bearded Jesus from the late 4th and 5th c. at least.
Wikipedia image of c. 405 church depiction of Christ
This part just gets confusing:
http://ift.tt/2kzQiTe
I know there is also an apocryphal story from maybe 200 AD about Didymus Thomas the apostle traveling to Jesus with a "twin" Jesus, and it sounds alot like the Abgar story. In both stories, people looked at the Addai or Thomas and saw Jesus. To conclude from this that Addai or Thomas were traveling with the shroud is a bit speculative though.
9. Where does Markwardt get this claim that I underline:
10.
http://ift.tt/2kzZ7MU
"Ponzio Pilato"? Is that a reference to Pilate?
The Carpocratians were in the islands to the west of modern Turkey. That's not Edessan.
What I would like to see is what sources if any talked about this shroud before c. 300 AD when Christianity became a religion patronized by Rome. I would want to see whether this shroud was just a pious fraud by the Byzantine empire or are their traces of it going back before then.
Map of the Roman province of Edessa (Wiki free use)
1. Wikipedia says about "Doctrine of Addai":
Quote:
The Doctrine of Addai is a Syriac Christian text, perhaps written about 400, which recites the Legend of the Image of Edessa as well as the legendary works of Addai and his disciple Mari in Mesopotamia. |
Quote:
The report of an image, which accrued to the legendarium of Abgar, first appears in the Syriac work, the Doctrine of Addai: according to it, the messenger, here called Ananias, was also a painter, and he painted the portrait, which was brought back to Edessa and conserved in the royal palace. ... Doctrine of Addai [Thaddeus], c. 400, which introduces a court painter among a delegation sent by Abgar to Jesus, who paints a portrait of Jesus to take back to his master: "When Hannan, the keeper of the archives, saw that Jesus spoke thus to him, by virtue of being the king's painter, he took and painted a likeness of Jesus with choice paints, and brought with him to Abgar the king, his master. And when Abgar the king saw the likeness, he received it with great joy, and placed it with great honor in one of his palatial houses." (Doctrine of Addai 13) ... The later legend of the image recounts that because the successors of Abgar reverted to paganism, the bishop placed the miraculous image inside a wall, and setting a burning lamp before the image, he sealed them up behind a tile; that the image was later found again, after a vision, on the very night of the Persian invasion, and that not only had it miraculously reproduced itself on the tile, but the same lamp was still burning before it; further, that the bishop of Edessa used a fire into which oil flowing from the image was poured to destroy the Persians. The image itself is said to have resurfaced in 525, during a flood of the Daisan, a tributary stream of the Euphrates that passed by Edessa. This flood is mentioned in the writings of the court historian Procopius of Caesarea. In the course of the reconstruction work, a cloth bearing the facial features of a man was discovered hidden in the wall above one of the gates of Edessa. http://ift.tt/2gIU9fV |
- The image of Adessa is said to have been "painted", not a miracle image.
- The story about the image being hidden due to a reversion to paganism and then rediscovered sounds credible to the extent that Christians in the city could reasonably want to keep an image for themselves about this. The idea that the image was totally lost and then rediscovered would seem unlikely. People would probably have an idea that the image was there, just that it wasn't being venerated due to the paganism of the emperors.
3. The Biblical Archaelology website says about early concern for Jesus' shroud:
Quote:
The second century apocryphal Gospel According to the Hebrews, considerably respected by early Christian writers, had a passage reporting Jesus giving his shroud to the servant of the priest, or as some scholars amend the text, to Peter (Sox 1978: 45 6). Other 2nd century apocryphal books like the Gospel of the Twelve Apostles, Gospel According to Peter, and Mysteries of the Acts of the Savior all show a concern for the sindons whereabouts (Savio 1982: 11). As a young girl being educated in 4th century Jerusalem, Saint Nino was told by her learned teacher Niaphori of a tradition of it being given to Peter (Humber 1977: 75). |
Gospel of Peter says:
"And having taken the Lord, he washed and tied him with a linen cloth and brought him into his own sepulcher, called the Garden of Joseph." I don't see anything particularly curious or notable about that regarding the cloth.
4. John 20 says:
Quote:
6 Then cometh Simon Peter following him, and went into the sepulchre, and seeth the linen clothes lie, 7 And the napkin, that was about his head, not lying with the linen clothes, but wrapped together in a place by itself. 8 Then went in also that other disciple, which came first to the sepulchre, and he saw, and believed. |
5. Eusebius writes in his late 3rd c. History about Jesus' contacts with King Abgar and the letter, so Biblical Archaeology is saying that the kind *could" have had the shroud at that point, even though the shroud is never mentioned in that letter:
It seems very speculative to draw the connection between Jesus' relations with Abgar V in the 1st c., or the apostles' relations with him, and getting a shroud to him of Jesus.
The apostles did go to Syria. Here is a map of Abgar's empire in Edessa:
http://ift.tt/2kAcblj
6. A USA Today article says that new Carbon Dating in 2013 gives a date of 300-400 AD. That would agree with the time when the first record of an Edessan shroud was reported:
Quote:
. Subsequent testing of fabric from an un-repaired section dated it to between 300 BC and 400 AD (see, for example, http://ift.tt/2kzXpet). |
Quote:
The new test, by scientists at the University of Padua in northern Italy, used the same fibers from the 1988 tests but disputes the findings. The new examination dates the shroud to between 300 BC and 400 AD, which would put it in the era of Christ. It determined that the earlier results may have been skewed by contamination from fibers used to repair the cloth when it was damaged by fire in the Middle Ages, http://ift.tt/2kzXpet |
7. Edessa was a major Christian center in AD 190 or earlier:
http://ift.tt/2kzXjna
The Christians then could have brought the Shroud to Edessa by 190, or alternately it could have been a pious fraud done in the context of the religion's official sanction by the king. Abgar IX was an Armenian ruler of Edessa, who ruled in AD 177 to 212 and made Christianity the official religion there 100+ years before Rome made Christianity legal. The Shroud could reasonably have been brought to Edessa or manufactured there at that time or in the period leading up to its first mention of being in Edessa in c. 400 AD.
8. This skeptical article says that the shroud doesn't match the legends of Jesus wiping the cloth with his face (the Veronica story):
Quote:
Image of Edessa there were two or three stories, that it had been painted by the court painter of king Abgar or, more usually, that Christ himself had wiped his face with a cloth and the image had been imprinted. ... no one knowing the legend that gave the image its authenticity, as a cloth wiped by Christ himself on his face while he was alive, would have stared at the face we see the Turin Shroud and have believed that this was an image of a living man. We can assume that the image, if extant, in the sixth century, would have been brighter than it is now. It might have been possible to fold the Turin Shroud up to conceal the image of a naked lifeless body but this could hardly have been kept secret for long. The Turin Shroud is of a dead man, the Edessa image is, like all the other images of this time, a living Christ. ...one of the legendary accounts of the origins of the Image of Edessa in a sixth century text, the Acts of Thaddeus (or Jude). This gives a standard account of the image having been made by Christ himself |
The article points out that one of the arguments in favor of the shroud is that supposedly all images of Jesus were beardless before the shroud was discovered in the 6th c. However, the article points out that actually there are depictions of a bearded Jesus from the late 4th and 5th c. at least.
Quote:
we have the earliest bearded Christ in the catacomb of Commodilla in Rome in about 390 and then a fine central image of a bearded Christ in the church of San Pudenziana of c. 405 (below). |
Wikipedia image of c. 405 church depiction of Christ
This part just gets confusing:
http://ift.tt/2kzQiTe
I know there is also an apocryphal story from maybe 200 AD about Didymus Thomas the apostle traveling to Jesus with a "twin" Jesus, and it sounds alot like the Abgar story. In both stories, people looked at the Addai or Thomas and saw Jesus. To conclude from this that Addai or Thomas were traveling with the shroud is a bit speculative though.
9. Where does Markwardt get this claim that I underline:
Quote:
There was, throughout the citys history, a strong tradition that the apostle Thomas and a disciple variously named Addai, Thaddeus Jude (of the biblical 72 or 70) went to Edessa after the death of Jesus. This is legend and it is more likely that, as historian Jack Markwardt writes: . . . Avircius Marcellus, the Bishop of Hieropolis, was summoned to Rome, where he was introduced to Abgars wife, Queen Shalmath, that he then travelled to Antioch, where he was joined by Palut and provided with the Shroud, identifiable as the historically-documented sacred Christ-icon which had been taken from Palestine to Syria, and that he then proceeded to Edessa, where he displayed the imaged relic to the king and baptized him into the Christian faith, thereby resulting in the Shrouds commemoration, in legend, as the Portrait of Edessa.Markwardt goes on the suggest us that the shroud was then brought back to Antioch where it remained until sometime in the 6th century. It was, Markwardt believes, concealed above the citys Gate of the Cherubim in A.D. 362 where it remained until about 540. http://ift.tt/2llpHxj |
Quote:
According to Irenaeus, around the year 180 , the Carpocratians owned icons of Christ that were believed to be authentic ( Adv Haer I 25.6). Hyppolitus from Rome tells that the model for gnostic representations of Christ corresponded to an image tran smitted by Ponzio Pilato ( Ref VI 32). ... Because of the state of the art of the available sources, we must consider the journey of the Cloth from Jerusalem to Edessa as speculative. Yet the possibility is, at least, not some impossibility to exclude. |
"Ponzio Pilato"? Is that a reference to Pilate?
The Carpocratians were in the islands to the west of modern Turkey. That's not Edessan.
via International Skeptics Forum http://ift.tt/2llE591
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