So it looks like Biden is going to win the election. I know nothing is decided, and that the GOP is attempting to sabotage the election. That's not up for discussion here -- for the purpose of this thread, we assume Biden takes office in January 2021.
So Trump has ruled America for four years. I don't need to list his evils. I don't need to get into how Trump supporters have failed to criticize him for what he's doing, and even chose to voted for him in great numbers this election.
It now seems Trump will be a one-term president. Come January, he will be a civilian, and his cult will no longer have him as president. This begs an important question:
What do we do with the trumpkins?
It's been a long time since I wrote a long, thought-out essay of a post on these forums. I'm sorry if it's a bit lengthy, feel free to just skim through it if it doesn't give you anything. But I have a lot of thoughts and getting them down on paper takes some space, so bear with me.
I suspect that when Trump leaves office, it will be as if a spell is broken. The Trump supporters went silent for a time after the midterm election. The same thing happened during the election America just had -- they surfaced when Biden appeared to be struggling, only to disappear again once it became clear Biden was set to win. I think what makes Trump so attractive to an alarming number of people is his ability to make them feel like they're part of this huge, powerful, for lack of a better word rebellious movement, which terrified the liberal elite. He's like that one tough, burly kid who certain other boys flock to because he makes them feel like they're part of this menacing "gang" when they roam the streets, or hang around at street corners.
Once he loses the election, he will be a "loser" in their eyes. The strongman will have lost that image. Even if he tweets all day long just as he did before, he'll be tweeting as a defeated man who faces bankrupcy, lawsuits, and charges. Even throughout 2020, his rallies drew fewer followers. I think the Trumpers will simply go quiet about him once he's out of office. I don't know if they will drop the whataboutism-centered control the conversation style of tackling critics, and it's possible they'll be just as bitter and unhappy about the way the country's going and how the elite is ignoring them (many with good reason), and they may be resentful if they subscribe to Trump's narrative about the Democrats stealing the election, but they'll go quiet as Trump supporters.
So. What do we do about them?
Firstly, the US has really seen two protest movements arise in anger the past four years -- the Trump supporters and the BLM-led protesters. Both arose because their very real issues weren't being listened to. The blacks saw themselves grow up with police brutality, institutionalised racism, and far less opportunity than the white people, and even as other US minorities. As Michelle Obama put it in her memoir, "you have to work twice as hard to get half as far" as an African-American. Meanwhile there's a class of low-income people, many of them white, who do not see the problems of their communities addressed, and even experience that they are not only ignored by "the elite", but that they are even looked down upon and ridiculed by the rest of the country. You know who I'm talking about. Rednecks. Hillbillies. Trailer trash. They are to be pitied and looked down upon, turned into an archetypical character to serve as the butt of jokes.
Both rose up in 2016. With the African-American community, their patience didn't truly run out until 2020, but they rose up. The trumpkins elected a president who they felt, sadly mistakenly, listened to them and cared about their plight. Someone who was just as corrupt as the rest of the establishment, but was at least aware of it and pledged to drain the swamp. Maybe that was even part of his appeal. That they believed it took a thief to catch a thief. The African-Americans, meanwhile, took to the streets in record numbers, not all of them peacefully.
What they have in common is a very real experience of growing up in a country with little social mobility, with far less opportunity than many others in the country of the same age, through no fault of their own. And they both rose up.
Now the Trump rebellion seems to have been struck down. The revolution is over. The leader, the face of the revolution, has been defeated. But maybe it isn't as much about whether the "trumpkins" will go away. Maybe the important part is their reasons for rising up certainly are not. And the sad part is, even as rebels, the Trump supporters were still ridiculed and looked down upon. That's not going to change now. The archetypical Trump supporter might end up the laughing stock of the nation for a while. Imagine how humiliating that must feel.
I think maybe the most important thing going forward is addressing these social issues. The need for sweeping police and justice system reforms. Racism on every level of society. The plight of those growing up less privilegued in America, be them black or white, or anything in-between. Future politicians must demonstrate that they respect, and care about, the people who feel they've been ignored by the elite for far too long. Because no matter how much you disagree with their methods, there's always reasons why people rise up.
I think Trump needs to be prosecuted for what he has done, even if doing so will be painful for the nation here and now, because the US is a free country which should not put up with corruption and evil, and letting Trump get off sets a very dangerous precedent for the next Trump lurking in the shadows. I also don't know if everyone who lost their friendships in 2016 should try to reconcile, because with some political views, it's just not possible to forgive and forget.
I do think, however, that it's important to reach out to the Trump supporters. When we discuss, for example, creationism or CTs here, we tend to actually address the CTers' and Creationists' arguments and claims, with facts and reason. I think that's also the way to go with Trump supporters. I myself have had a tendency to just decide they're all trolls, call them out on their whataboutisms and general unwillingness to have a proper discussion, and then to my ignore list, lamening that everyone else won't just do the same.
I think that was wrong of me. Sure, oftentimes they were just trolling, or trying to derail the thread. You've got characters like that in every sub-forum. But I think Trump supporters in general benefit more from people who disagree with them actually educating them with facts, and explaining to them how they're wrong. And, most of all, understanding the underlying reasons for their support of Trump, be them good or bad. A lot of them support pretty horrible things, and a lot of them come across as downright terrible people. But they, and their plight, has also been used, manipulated, and lied to by Trump.
I'm reminded of the video game Night in the Woods, a role-playing game where you're playing as Mae Borowski, a teen who has to drop out of college due to some serious personal issues, and returns to a town that's crumbling after the steel mill shut down. The whole game, which I wholeheartedly recommend to anyone into games with an emphasis on great storytelling, is an exploration of life without opportunity or hope, be it for yourself and your neighbours, or for the town you're growing up in. I won't spoil details here, but suffice to say it's a very authentic and heart-felt game with great insight.
My point is, I can't help but think that if they made a Night in the Woods 2, where Trump had been elected and the steel mill had been reopened, where the town thrived again and adults had hope for themselves and Possum Springs... if Mae might not, despite herself, be tempted to vote for him.
So. What are your thoughts on healing the divide, and moving on from the failed Trump revolution?
I also want to share these reflections by Beau of the Fifth Coloum, who has some good points:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mz_z...theFifthColumn
So Trump has ruled America for four years. I don't need to list his evils. I don't need to get into how Trump supporters have failed to criticize him for what he's doing, and even chose to voted for him in great numbers this election.
It now seems Trump will be a one-term president. Come January, he will be a civilian, and his cult will no longer have him as president. This begs an important question:
What do we do with the trumpkins?
It's been a long time since I wrote a long, thought-out essay of a post on these forums. I'm sorry if it's a bit lengthy, feel free to just skim through it if it doesn't give you anything. But I have a lot of thoughts and getting them down on paper takes some space, so bear with me.
I suspect that when Trump leaves office, it will be as if a spell is broken. The Trump supporters went silent for a time after the midterm election. The same thing happened during the election America just had -- they surfaced when Biden appeared to be struggling, only to disappear again once it became clear Biden was set to win. I think what makes Trump so attractive to an alarming number of people is his ability to make them feel like they're part of this huge, powerful, for lack of a better word rebellious movement, which terrified the liberal elite. He's like that one tough, burly kid who certain other boys flock to because he makes them feel like they're part of this menacing "gang" when they roam the streets, or hang around at street corners.
Once he loses the election, he will be a "loser" in their eyes. The strongman will have lost that image. Even if he tweets all day long just as he did before, he'll be tweeting as a defeated man who faces bankrupcy, lawsuits, and charges. Even throughout 2020, his rallies drew fewer followers. I think the Trumpers will simply go quiet about him once he's out of office. I don't know if they will drop the whataboutism-centered control the conversation style of tackling critics, and it's possible they'll be just as bitter and unhappy about the way the country's going and how the elite is ignoring them (many with good reason), and they may be resentful if they subscribe to Trump's narrative about the Democrats stealing the election, but they'll go quiet as Trump supporters.
So. What do we do about them?
Firstly, the US has really seen two protest movements arise in anger the past four years -- the Trump supporters and the BLM-led protesters. Both arose because their very real issues weren't being listened to. The blacks saw themselves grow up with police brutality, institutionalised racism, and far less opportunity than the white people, and even as other US minorities. As Michelle Obama put it in her memoir, "you have to work twice as hard to get half as far" as an African-American. Meanwhile there's a class of low-income people, many of them white, who do not see the problems of their communities addressed, and even experience that they are not only ignored by "the elite", but that they are even looked down upon and ridiculed by the rest of the country. You know who I'm talking about. Rednecks. Hillbillies. Trailer trash. They are to be pitied and looked down upon, turned into an archetypical character to serve as the butt of jokes.
Both rose up in 2016. With the African-American community, their patience didn't truly run out until 2020, but they rose up. The trumpkins elected a president who they felt, sadly mistakenly, listened to them and cared about their plight. Someone who was just as corrupt as the rest of the establishment, but was at least aware of it and pledged to drain the swamp. Maybe that was even part of his appeal. That they believed it took a thief to catch a thief. The African-Americans, meanwhile, took to the streets in record numbers, not all of them peacefully.
What they have in common is a very real experience of growing up in a country with little social mobility, with far less opportunity than many others in the country of the same age, through no fault of their own. And they both rose up.
Now the Trump rebellion seems to have been struck down. The revolution is over. The leader, the face of the revolution, has been defeated. But maybe it isn't as much about whether the "trumpkins" will go away. Maybe the important part is their reasons for rising up certainly are not. And the sad part is, even as rebels, the Trump supporters were still ridiculed and looked down upon. That's not going to change now. The archetypical Trump supporter might end up the laughing stock of the nation for a while. Imagine how humiliating that must feel.
I think maybe the most important thing going forward is addressing these social issues. The need for sweeping police and justice system reforms. Racism on every level of society. The plight of those growing up less privilegued in America, be them black or white, or anything in-between. Future politicians must demonstrate that they respect, and care about, the people who feel they've been ignored by the elite for far too long. Because no matter how much you disagree with their methods, there's always reasons why people rise up.
I think Trump needs to be prosecuted for what he has done, even if doing so will be painful for the nation here and now, because the US is a free country which should not put up with corruption and evil, and letting Trump get off sets a very dangerous precedent for the next Trump lurking in the shadows. I also don't know if everyone who lost their friendships in 2016 should try to reconcile, because with some political views, it's just not possible to forgive and forget.
I do think, however, that it's important to reach out to the Trump supporters. When we discuss, for example, creationism or CTs here, we tend to actually address the CTers' and Creationists' arguments and claims, with facts and reason. I think that's also the way to go with Trump supporters. I myself have had a tendency to just decide they're all trolls, call them out on their whataboutisms and general unwillingness to have a proper discussion, and then to my ignore list, lamening that everyone else won't just do the same.
I think that was wrong of me. Sure, oftentimes they were just trolling, or trying to derail the thread. You've got characters like that in every sub-forum. But I think Trump supporters in general benefit more from people who disagree with them actually educating them with facts, and explaining to them how they're wrong. And, most of all, understanding the underlying reasons for their support of Trump, be them good or bad. A lot of them support pretty horrible things, and a lot of them come across as downright terrible people. But they, and their plight, has also been used, manipulated, and lied to by Trump.
I'm reminded of the video game Night in the Woods, a role-playing game where you're playing as Mae Borowski, a teen who has to drop out of college due to some serious personal issues, and returns to a town that's crumbling after the steel mill shut down. The whole game, which I wholeheartedly recommend to anyone into games with an emphasis on great storytelling, is an exploration of life without opportunity or hope, be it for yourself and your neighbours, or for the town you're growing up in. I won't spoil details here, but suffice to say it's a very authentic and heart-felt game with great insight.
My point is, I can't help but think that if they made a Night in the Woods 2, where Trump had been elected and the steel mill had been reopened, where the town thrived again and adults had hope for themselves and Possum Springs... if Mae might not, despite herself, be tempted to vote for him.
So. What are your thoughts on healing the divide, and moving on from the failed Trump revolution?
I also want to share these reflections by Beau of the Fifth Coloum, who has some good points:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mz_z...theFifthColumn
via International Skeptics Forum https://ift.tt/3mW9r2j
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