On Police Brutality, Racism and Sexism

Posters largely considered my comments in the George Floyd thread a derail. I see why, but disagree. That said, I'd rather it not get buried in a thread too-hard-to-keep-up-with and I want to gather general opinion. With that said, I'm going to copy my post with minimal edits. Some of you interacted I believe in good faith and unfortunately I've lost track of it all as it spanned several pages. Thank you for your thoughts. Feel free to repost them.

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The thread about a black delivery guy died when I asked a similar question to what I'm about to. I'm curious on people's thoughts on the below, as one of the only male advocates on this forum ("MRA" is fine, don't care).

We see that police brutality occurs to people of all types. Yes, including white people and also including women. However, the most predominant type appears to be against black people, and black men in particular. This matches other realities in the "justice" system: there is a sex bias against men which combines with a smaller, but still significant race bias against black people.

This thread, and the protests in general, seem to focus on police brutality against black people (rather than black men - who we all know are the vast majority of black victims of police mistreatment). Some people are more general and are against police brutality in general. I think it's hard to disagree with the latter, though there are racial and political motivators for people to support/challenge the former. No one is talking about police brutality against MEN in general, which makes up the vast majority of cases (outside of protests or riots where people seem to be indiscriminately mistreated).

So I'm kinda curious what people think about what I wrote. Where I'm wrong or perhaps my framing is poor. I, personally, recognize that police brutality against black people is significant and yet I personally also see it as a more general problem, a more sexist than racist problem (or at least comparable in nature - I don't think it matters who loses here) and don't necessarily support the framing of it just being a racism issue (some will call this white privilege yada yada).

Thoughts?

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As a male advocate I lurk in some male-positive spaces, both left and right-leaning as well as general "gender debate" spaces to get an idea of what feminists, non-feminists and MRAs (and all combinations of the above) believe and why. Below is a source that I found in one of these spaces and I recently read it.

https://www.pnas.org/content/116/34/...QoA#abstract-2

I'm no statistician so I can't comment on that aspect, but I must say that the numbers more or less bear out what my belief was in advance. They also agree pretty well with what in memory EmilysCat estimated in the other thread in her reply to me (though I think she underestimated the gender effect and over estimated the race effect - could be remembering wrong)

I'll quote rather than put in my own words.

I think figure 1 shows the numbers pretty well.
Figure

Quote:

Fig 2 displays the ratio of lifetime risk for each racial–ethnic group relative to risk for whites for both men and women. Note that a rate ratio of 1 indicates equality in mortality risk relative to whites. The highest levels of inequality in mortality risk are experienced by black men. Black men are about 2.5 times more likely to be killed by police over the life course than are white men. Black women are about 1.4 times more likely to be killed by police than are white women. Although risks are estimated with less precision for American Indian/Alaska Native men and women than for other groups, we show that they face a higher lifetime risk of being killed by police than do whites. American Indian men are between 1.2 and 1.7 times more likely to be killed by police than are white men, and American Indian women are between 1.1 and 2.1 times more likely to be killed by police than are white women. Latino men are between 1.3 and 1.4 times more likely to be killed by police than are white men, but Latina women are between 12% and 23% less likely to be killed by police than are white women. Both Asian/Pacific Islander men and women are more than 50% less likely to be killed by police than are white men and women, respectively. .... Women’s lifetime risk of being killed by police is about 20 times lower than men’s risk. Among women and girls, black women’s and American Indian/Alaska Native women’s risk is highest; we expect between 2.4 and 5.4 black women and girls to be killed by police over the life course per 100,000 at current rates. American Indian and Alaska Native women and girls are killed by police over the life course at a rate of about 4.2 per 100,000 [1.8, 8.5]. Latina and white women and girls have similar lifetime mortality risks, at about 2 per 100,000. Asian/Pacific Islander women and girls are at the lowest risk of being killed by police for all groups, with a lifetime risk of about 0.6 [0.2, 1.5] per 100,000. However, when other causes of fatality are included in risk estimates, particularly vehicle-related deaths, risk estimates more than double for women across all racial and ethnic groups. We show estimates of lifetime risk at 2013 to 2018 mortality risk levels for multiple causes of police-involved deaths in SI Appendix, Fig. S12.

Ok, I've roughly made my case. I don't deny that there is an issue of racism. I think race is at most an equal factor to sex when it comes to discrimination by police and specifically police brutality, but I believe that sexism is a bigger factor.

Yes, there are victims who who female (and white) and I personally don't want to erase victims of any type. I question the framing of the problem from the ground up. I disagree with police brutality (and power that comes with their role in general) as it is in the US especially but in the world in general.

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