But the dilemma i have doesn't have much to do with Islam. It can and might be the dilemma of many religionists.
Ok shortly, without boring the admirably intelligent folks here:
I went through a long journey in my youth with religion, had a mystic (sufi) grandfather and i myself tried to figure out many different flavors of that religion in the then-secular republic of Turkey. At the end, in my early 30s (i'm 47 now) i shed off most of religion and towards the end of my 30s i could surely call myself an infidel.
During the tormenting process of my de-conversion the final thread that was still holding me to that religion i think is holding me back from fully accepting materialism today (if i must). I must admit that i do not know these philosophies (such as materialism) that well. By what i meant materialism is the world that has no unexplainable phenomena such as foreseeing future events. I've been reading threads here about OBEs and side with those who demand evidence and stick to scientific thinking and methods.
I've had many unexplainable experiences during and-some after- my religious life. During the time i was de-converting myself from religion i developed interest in such things as energy healing, OBE and all that stuff. As if to continue and develop my "now natural" skills.. Soon i developed a distaste, especially after a friend of mine became "an energy healer" and got wrapped up in a new-age-like world view upon the inspiration he received from me. In the meanwhile i went further than dismantling this or that religion and learned about superstition and cultural brainwashing and visited more and more you tube channels (like the atheist experience) and started reading quality stuff (like Chapman Cohen essays). Now I'm trying to develop some kind of worldview that goes beyond criticizing superstition.
To think of all existence solely in the "known" terms for the sake of keeping it "real", in its way stand my past experiences that i had attributed to and credited religion for. I could dismiss all of those experiences (maybe even not) which most of them took place when i was asleep, except the ones that involved news about future.
I do not want to cloud my question by telling my experiences about this and then to have to defend them as real or to prove that they're above and beyond interpretation. There have been a few hundreds of people where i left 19 years ago who totally looked at me after an infamous e-mail i sent to a then-close-friend, as someone who gets news about people's times of deaths all the way from another continent. And today I'm an infidel in their eyes. (Instead of the saint i used to be). That is fine with me(being an infidel). I had to argue with the last friend (to whom that infamous e-mail i had sent and who informed me over a year's time of its manifestation) from that religious group that these experiences happen to anyone in the world and they don't prove any particular religion.
While that's true, (that they don't prove anything, especially a particular creed), what do i do with these past dreams that came true, let alone the miracle like coincidences i lived in constantly back in those days..
While i was de-converting, a major eye opener for me was the realization, the finding out that people didn't choose their sexual orientation like abrahamic religions claim and declare some of them as sinful choices, deviations. They were born so. That alone showed me that those religions failed in describing the world we live in, and totally discredited themselves.
Now today's question "for me" is do all my unexplainable experiences in the past, since they exist for me (and who knows maybe even tomorrow) prove it "to me" that i can't believe in a materialistic world view? Or do i not understand what that worldview is?
Ok shortly, without boring the admirably intelligent folks here:
I went through a long journey in my youth with religion, had a mystic (sufi) grandfather and i myself tried to figure out many different flavors of that religion in the then-secular republic of Turkey. At the end, in my early 30s (i'm 47 now) i shed off most of religion and towards the end of my 30s i could surely call myself an infidel.
During the tormenting process of my de-conversion the final thread that was still holding me to that religion i think is holding me back from fully accepting materialism today (if i must). I must admit that i do not know these philosophies (such as materialism) that well. By what i meant materialism is the world that has no unexplainable phenomena such as foreseeing future events. I've been reading threads here about OBEs and side with those who demand evidence and stick to scientific thinking and methods.
I've had many unexplainable experiences during and-some after- my religious life. During the time i was de-converting myself from religion i developed interest in such things as energy healing, OBE and all that stuff. As if to continue and develop my "now natural" skills.. Soon i developed a distaste, especially after a friend of mine became "an energy healer" and got wrapped up in a new-age-like world view upon the inspiration he received from me. In the meanwhile i went further than dismantling this or that religion and learned about superstition and cultural brainwashing and visited more and more you tube channels (like the atheist experience) and started reading quality stuff (like Chapman Cohen essays). Now I'm trying to develop some kind of worldview that goes beyond criticizing superstition.
To think of all existence solely in the "known" terms for the sake of keeping it "real", in its way stand my past experiences that i had attributed to and credited religion for. I could dismiss all of those experiences (maybe even not) which most of them took place when i was asleep, except the ones that involved news about future.
I do not want to cloud my question by telling my experiences about this and then to have to defend them as real or to prove that they're above and beyond interpretation. There have been a few hundreds of people where i left 19 years ago who totally looked at me after an infamous e-mail i sent to a then-close-friend, as someone who gets news about people's times of deaths all the way from another continent. And today I'm an infidel in their eyes. (Instead of the saint i used to be). That is fine with me(being an infidel). I had to argue with the last friend (to whom that infamous e-mail i had sent and who informed me over a year's time of its manifestation) from that religious group that these experiences happen to anyone in the world and they don't prove any particular religion.
While that's true, (that they don't prove anything, especially a particular creed), what do i do with these past dreams that came true, let alone the miracle like coincidences i lived in constantly back in those days..
While i was de-converting, a major eye opener for me was the realization, the finding out that people didn't choose their sexual orientation like abrahamic religions claim and declare some of them as sinful choices, deviations. They were born so. That alone showed me that those religions failed in describing the world we live in, and totally discredited themselves.
Now today's question "for me" is do all my unexplainable experiences in the past, since they exist for me (and who knows maybe even tomorrow) prove it "to me" that i can't believe in a materialistic world view? Or do i not understand what that worldview is?
via International Skeptics Forum http://ift.tt/2hIAWQS
Aucun commentaire:
Enregistrer un commentaire